Agenda (in Pacific Time):8:00 - 8:10 Introductions—Dene8:10-8:30 Metadata on the Front End—Dene8:30-8:50 Metadata on the Back End—Richard8:50-9:00 Q&A

WElcome. Please chat me your email if you want to be informed about the other Second Tuesday Salons

I would love to be informed of future Second Tuesday Salons, my email is stella.wisdom@bl.uk

It is really important to have the images of the physical objects--particularly as they are so rare now.

Can you see all versions in the metadata on the right side? E.g., Jane's work you have version 1 and 3, but I only see 1?

THANK YOU for putting this in World CAT and ELMCIP!

Releases always depended on whatever bugs were in the works, and Mark's time and availability.

MArk Bernstein, Chief Scientist, Eastgate Systems

Different versions of the work can be found via the search function -- at this time the metadata displayed to the right of each work's description is describing one specific version.

So wonderful. You could also have a lot of versions that were pre-publication, and that would need to be noted as well. I remember versions upon versions as we worked through workd!

Can you explain what you mean by "authority"?

I can answer that! "Authority" refers to an external authority that can verify the creator's identity.

We mostly use the Library of Congress "Name Authority" file (MADS) or ELMCIP

Can you give examples of procedure modalities?

So authority is like a proven provenance?

A fair amount of my work and I assume others is based on very early calculator and mini-computer programming as well as physical objects that have no definitive date - wonder how that material wd. be included in a scheme that's computer/computation based?

Thank you for going beyond to the spirit behind ADA--allowing people to access works!

And it is great to have epilepsy warnings.

We have a separate field for provenance for the item -- the authority field is specifically to verify an entity like a creator, publisher, etc.

What a thorough and informative extended schema. Wonderful!

Please add warnings for loudness as well :P

Yes, Deena. Sound is something we are planning to address

Work notes is a great field.

Yes, we are continuing to build the notes sections for both the Versions and the Copies

Interesting to see the tabs,--what is the thought behind other tabs and sheets?

NO

@deena the spreadsheet Richard is showing is our master spreadsheet. Each tab represents each collection in The NEXT

sorry for shouting

Chrstine, No to what?

Just answering Richard's question re. seeing empty spreadsheet

:)

My lab allows us to check the version of Storyspace and HyperCard, etc

It also lets us know if a work is aimed for Mac or Windows or both

How will the metadata be updated? Will you keep outdated metadata?

Is there any space for computer languages?

There’s copyright and then there’s publication rights. As we’ve seen with Eastgate, those may be held by different people/entities.

Would there be different fields for each language or would all the info about languages go in the one field

@deena, we keep copies of the old spredsheets

Each language would be considered a different version and so be placed on its own row

What is the rough size of the NEXT and how are you handling backup copies of the same?

We have about 3000 works in The NEXT

Terabytes?

Alan, we are backing up numerous ways, such as at the server level on a regular schedule.

Thanks -

We also backup on hard drives in various locations. I hold an entire copy of The NEXT at my home. Greg holds another at his office.

The grant that Stella, Erika and I just wrote would create a version of The NEXT to be created and maintained at Lancaster U in the UK

that wd be excellent!

Fingers crossed we get the funding

Yes. My vision is to have The NEXT held across the globe to ensure is safekeeping and continued growth

So Object would be a physical object?

Fingers crossed :)

What does local mean?

@stella, it is an ambitious proposal with a lot of firepower behind it. You being one of them

With my work, it's often not published but exhibited in galleries or museums etc. - is there a space for this?

Yes, we are a museum and library

Is there a space for listing in the NEXT?

You mean a list of exhibitions?

I am imagining that a work you exhibited would be held in The NEXT and show up in its own space like Douglas'

No, Objects themselves.

It would be wonderful to include Elit in the wild @lyle

@alan: terabytes, we have about 2 on the server. But my hard drives are also holding all of the raw files for the media we produced for The NEXT, so they are 4-5 Terabytes each

Also, sometimes the same version was published in different media.

Excellent!

Deena, we’re working to get as much of my “wild” elit into the ELC4 as we can, so there will be some in there!

Yes, that is why we version the work

what makes elit "wild"?

We have to tamper with the code of works when we use Ruffle. So, we call the Ruffled work Version 2.0

So would a pure digital work be noted as a elit object? Are you distinguishing between pure digital journals and physical journals?

We will fix that, Ricahrd

We are not yet holding any physical journals in The NEXT

HAving the scholarly notes is great--reminds me of Bill Bly's We Descend ;P

@Stella, that’s what we call stuff we’ve found outside the realm of publications the ELO is used to - hasn’t been entered in Hyperrhiz, new river, ELCs, New Media Writing Prize, etc. We just sort of… come across it.

yes, Deena

Thank you for the preservation work!

We do have wild work, Lyle

I know! I love it. :)

Is there a separate entry for each of the PAthways readings?

:)

thanks for the explanation Lyle :-)

I love wild e-lit. :D

LOOK FOR DNA TRACES!!!

Also, Marjorie created special versions of the Book of Egypt for each of us... which we have always treasured...

Deena, it has been so cool to see the different copies of it!

Absolutely - that would be hard to do today -

so the history of these works in people's/readers hands is so important

remember, Margie put handmade spells into the work for each person she gave Book of Going Forth to

Questions:Is there a separate entry for each of the Pathways readings?

whoa, are there any works in COBOL?

And then there are collections like Turbulence... :)

And there are collections of collections--like Regina Pinto's museum!

Why a model instead of an image of the original? I'm thinking of my avatar work; they'd be incredibly difficult to model (they were!) -

What process do we have for continuing the ELL and NEXT?

What do we need to do to keep the NEXT alive for the next 50 years--or more?

My sleep-deprived brain just imagined a whole renewed Indiana Jones film with Dene as Indiana, tracking down all these objects (most of which various tricksters have stolen). “THESE BELONG IN THE NEXT!” she shouts at all of us who are terrible at keeping track of physical objects, much less digital ones.

I love it. Dene has that spirit!

Ha! @Lyle, great!

I’m not sure I want to give her a bullwhip. lol

PIE reminds me of Eastgate's mott: Commodity firmness, delight.

many copies is the best way to have that archive safe

I can also speak to the accessibility of The NEXT for the purposes of bringing new people into the e-lit community -- the site is already useful for me as someone trying to understand the field better.

re: many copies: see Stanford’s LOCKSS: https://www.lockss.org/

Yes, LOCKSS

We need to rope in the Media Archaelogy Lab with Lori Emerson, MITH, etc. and all the other scattered archives

Yes!!!

Apologies if you’ve answered this: are there any eventual plans (i.e., planned funding attempts) to develop simulators for the “obsolete” works to be accessible online?

And we need volunteers!

I want to do the weekend workshop--please provide details@!@

will the Flash workshop be online?

I’d like to - I have a piece I need to convert!

wow, that workshop sounds fantastic!

CAn we set up a "to do" list and make it easy for people to volunteer their time?

RAD.

I think that's a great idea, Deena!

Incredible. YEs, we need King of Space!!!

King of Space was my first deep dive into an e-lit work! I love it.

And we need to save the unfinished works as well (still lamenting my Stone Moons...)

We could use cuneiform! It tends to last! :-)

we need to train the next generation of archivists and librarians to work with these collections

It is so wonderful to get the NEXT generation!

is there a lesson for artists in all this? about how we should self document?

A LOT of video hasn't lasted. Trust me on this.

Oh, man, the headache netprovs create for archiving!

Hello good day everyone!

Alan hi

Richard, is that a hint from you to us artists? Include our metadata for you? lol

but does that warning close off emerging cutting edge platforms?

Hi

@Lyle haha well I wouldn't say no! But we wanted to provide you all with these resources so you can look through them for yourself.

:D

For example, the demo flopy of MArble Springs looks nothing like the web version demo!

And all of our fooling around in dates will drive Dene and ELL nuts!

Yes, Deena! We are definitely still working through the best way to capture those differences. I find that to be such a fun and interesting challenge!

False information propagates more quickly than true info!

Yeah, but then you are relying on the artists' faulty memories...

Bill Bly's archivist work is amazing as well.

A lot of my computer work goes back to the 1970s a bit even earlier; this doesn't fit in - the floppies (12") are long goneand the only records are the printouts -

My files at MITH are a total wreck-I just boxed it up and sent it.

Everything is a wreck--as we live our lives and we write new stuff rather than looking at the old.

Please what are the requirements to have standard archiving of e-lit in Africa?

I’m really terrible for keeping NOTHING physical. Comes from so much moving around the world.

You need to write the story of how you did the NEXT in Covid

THank you so much!!

Thank you greatly!

Thank you!

I thought this started just now!

Thank you

Thanks very much!

Great stuff. Nice to “see” everyone. Love the Indiana Jones analogy.

Yes, Dene, I'll get it to you

Thanks so much!

thanks, this is excellent work and I'm keen to learn from you all

Clearly I arrived late :(

Thanks Dene!

I am in Spain and got my times wrong. Can we see the video? Thanks Dene and Deena.

Yes, Deena

What a lovely cat!!

Yes, Maria

@Agnieszka, that’s Moose. :)

Mine (Manolo) is sleeping... @Lyle

<3

Please feel free to reach out to me if you need ANYTHING! :)

Richard.snyder@wsu.edu

great work Dene, Richard, et al.!

Thanks Richard S.

could you send these also in email?

the-next.eliterature.org

Thank you Dene and Richard for the presentation and the explanations. So much energy and enthusiasm! That's wonderful.Thank you so much for the elit field (this is Serge, using my wife's computer :-))

is there a mailing list for the salons?

@Stella, yes. Deena will add you, and if not, I’ll forward

August 10: (RE)VERB Andrew Demirjian <ademirji@hunter.cuny.edu>Sept 14: Salon Salon Katie kschaag@gmail.comOct 12: Sharing stories privately: Vinicus/Marcia Mencia "viniciusmarquet@gmail.com" <viniciusmarquet@gmail.com>November 9: Matt Kirschenbaum’s double book launchDecember 14: Generative text 101 davidnunezruiz@gmail.com

awesome, thanks :-)

thank you everyone for joining us today

Thanks so much for your support and enthusiasm!

Thank you very much and adios!